when rupert murdoch seemed sometimes confused, slow, and often in an almost touching way, james murdoch would try to intervene and supply information that his father didn't have. and the mps would say, no, we'd like to hear from rupert murdoch. the pie changed the whole dynamic of the day. >> very dramatic scenes. would you agree it was the pie that won it? >> no, i actually don't think i would agree. i think the pie incident will be seen for what it is, which was a disgraceful, appalling breach of parliamentary regulations and will be dealt with as such. and that fundamentally, people will turn back. the pie will be a side bar, and it may have made the headlines tomorrow, but the answers that were given by the murdochs in the hearings, will be what people will focus on in the longer term and don't forget one other crucial point. there are the police inquiries, the independent police commission, where you have this massive judicial inquiry that still has to get under way, along with further inquiries that will come from this committee. long and short, the pie might be the froth, if you